A Conversation with Richard Nixon
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Show notes. National Educational Television Network animation. Host Paul Niven stands in front of a bookshelf, leaning on a bookshelf staircase as he introduces himself, the topics of the show, and the show's guest, and the resume of former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon. Title card; illustration of Nixon from the shoulders up.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven sits across from former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon. He asks whether Nixon knows of any other country that deprecates politics and politicians as much as the United States. Nixon answers with the Philippines because they learned from the U.S., citing his conversations with former Philippine ambassador to the U.S., Carlos Romulo. Nixon states the Philippines took the political excesses of the U.S. and improved upon them. Filipino elections are quite vicious with personal attacks. However, Nixon states that if Niven means countries in which politicians are looked down upon, then he answer may not be correct. While Filipino politics may be vicious, the politicians are not looked down upon and politics is seen as a worthy profession. Niven states that in the U.S. most see politics as a dirty business, but still complain about the quality of leadership they get.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon why politicians are looked down upon in the United States. Nixon states it wasn't always the case. In the early days of the Republics, politics was a noble profession, and stayed that way through much of the 19th century. In the early part of the 20th century, "muck raking" began and Americans began to learn about the flaws of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. Politicians were seen as more venal. Now, through, different forms of media, politicians are not seen as a particularly admirable group of people.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven calls politics the art of the possible, thus requiring compromise. In that process, manipulation takes place. However, politicians always seem to deny any manipulation is taking place, but the public knows otherwise and thinks situations are worse than they really are. Former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon agrees and proceeds to explain the differing mindsets between young and older people. Youth have an idealistic view on topics, and don't like compromise. But as people age, having that mindset leads you to one extreme or another. Progress is only achieved through compromise. The political man must see the views on the extremes and find consensus. In doing so, however, the political man loses support of both extremes and of the idealists. Nixon points out that though an election year is coming up, he will not criticize U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson for being an effective politician, especially during his time as Democratic Majority Leader in the Senate.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether any President should, in order to get a bill that is of vital importance to the nation passed, acquiesce to a political request from a Senator or Congressman, whose vote is needed; be it for a road, post office, or political appointment for a friend? Nixon states that does not happen as often as one would think. In his experience most Congressmen and Senators recoil at the thought of trading votes for district or state benefits, and are much more idealistic than that. However, whoever is in charge of getting a bill passed, must think of the ends, but not necessarily ignore all means to that end. Therefore, from time to time, in order to pass a major bill, yes, considerations are given to key Congressmen or Senators whose votes are critical for passage of a bill.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether politicians should admit trading votes for political concessions once in a while as opposed to denying it ever takes place. Nixon responds that doing so would likely get the politician voted out. He provides a scenario where that would happen, and explains that the people, in general, are still idealistic, to their credit. Therefore, any leader would have difficult time explaining any favors or concessions being made in order to pass a bill. Niven asks Nixon to what extent does he agree with the statement: "A man's first duty is to get re-elected." Nixon tries to analyze it objectively. He lays out a scenario where a politician has a tough opponent in his district and his party has a slim majority in the House of Representatives. Nixon doesn't think it is a priority for a man to get re-elected for selfish reasons, but for the broader goal of making sure his party stays in power.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven gives former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon an example where political concessions were made in exchange for votes. He cites the Civil Rights Bills were the southern states delegation of Senators united against those bills. Liberal media criticized certain Senators who knew better, but were afraid of being voted out of office if they voted for the bills. So, in not voting for the bills, those Senators sought to keep their office because they knew if they were to be voted out, true segregationists would be voted in office to replace them. Nixon offers a more specific example of Joseph Lister Hill (D-AL) who had a liberal image attached to him in Washington D.C. However, recently he had been running as a segregationist, though, as a person, in Nixon's view, he is more liberal than many in Alabama. If he let the people of Alabama see what he was like in Washington D.C. during his campaign, he wouldn't be office much longer. That's the dilemma he faces.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven presses former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon on whether it was right for U.S. Senator Joseph Lister Hill (D-AL) to misrepresent himself as a segregationist in order to satisfy the people of Alabama and keep himself in office. Nixon states he doesn't put himself in the position of God and judge whether another man's actions were right or wrong based on that man's own conscience. Nixon estimates that people like Sen. Hill and others like him will be judged at the end of their lives for their overall contributions. For those who compromise, at the end of their political lives, Nixon believes they will be seen favorably by their contemporaries. Compromise is a difficult business, and Nixon cites Sen. Everett Dirksen (R-IL), the current Minority Leader in the Senate, for the criticism he gets for compromising too often. Nixon addresses this critique by saying the Sen. Dirksen has only thirty-six Republicans to fight against the majority, so he had to compromise.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether, as a general rule, politics should be an exclusive profession. Specifically, should higher office be reserved to those who came up through local political offices? Or should any person from any profession be able to run for higher political office, without the need for any previous political experience? Nixon doesn't see any rule needed and sees the rules have changed precisely because of the exceptions. Nixon cites Governors George Romney and Ronald Reagan as examples, and believes this trend will continue and grow moving forward. Niven asks Nixon if he approves of it. Nixon certainly doesn't think it's bad for the country and it's good for the country to experience the "yeast of change". Without change, the establishment becomes dull and stale. New men, outsiders, come in, and may make mistakes, but good things will happen too. Conversely, those who have come up through the ranks should not be ruled out either.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether he thinks there is too much power concentrated in the Presidency, the Executive Branch. In terms of spending, the power of the Presidency does bother him. In terms of the conduct of foreign policy, the power doesn't bother him. Nixon doesn't believe there will ever be another declaration of war through Congress. Niven asks if that's rightly so, but Nixon states it doesn't matter. It is reality due to nuclear weapons. Future wars will no longer be conventional such as the Korean War, but potentially nuclear or guerilla in character. Nixon does not want to restrict a President, be it Republican or Democrat, if quick action is required. Perhaps there is a way key members of Congress can be consulted before action is taken, but the President must be able to act quickly, if needed, in the national interest.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven repeats former U.S. President Richard Nixon's wish that, domestically, a President should have his power reigned in by a strong Congress, and asks who has been more right more often in the domestic battles between the legislative and executive branches. Nixon believes that U.S. President Harry Truman was wrong on the Taft-Hartley Act debate, where the President represented the view of organized labor and Congress represented the peoples' wishes. On foreign policy, the President will be right and Congress will be wrong. Nixon doesn't think Congress is effective in making foreign policy, though it should be listened to. On the domestic front, Congress is more representative of the peoples' wishes. Specifically on spending, Nixon credits Congress with the ability to reign in an administration's spending wishes.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether labor union still have too much power in the country. Nixon thinks some labor union do, and thinks the Taft-Hartley Act needs "a complete reappraisal" to strike a new balance, not for management, but for interest of the general public. Nixon thinks labor and management are pretty well balanced, sometimes too well, and the consumer ends up paying the bill. Nixon takes up the issue of public strikes. He believes teachers, and other public employees, should be treated in the same manner federal employees are treated. They are given benefits that do rise over time, but they give up their right to strike against the public interest. Otherwise, Nixon fears that public institutions, like schools, and hospitals, will be at the mercy, at times, of irresponsible labor leaders.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks about former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon's concern regarding the power of the business community and of the military industrial complex. Nixon describes that such concerns noted when business interests mix in with government contracts and that pulls in a representative from a state or district that will want to guide appropriations toward that business interest. Nixon takes the space program as an example. It is has high popularity as it tries to go to the moon, or to catch and surpass the Russians, therefore funds were made readily available to whatever it needed. However, it is likely that due to the business interests associated with the space program, some of the appropriated money going to it is excessive. In situations like this, it is important for the President to balance out national interests versus state and district interests.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven turns to the news media to ask former U.S. Vice President Richard Nixon about his feelings toward the news media and the power they have. Nixon believes the news media can only be controlled by themselves. The media as a whole is a "sacred cow" and criticism of unfair coverage is somehow construed as an "attack on the press". Nixon recalls the approach he took in the 1960 Presidential Campaign which was not to go to a superior or publisher to complain about a reporter and their work regarding his campaign. Converse, U.S. President John F. Kennedy's Press Secretary, Pierre Salinger, took the opposite approach. Nixon doesn't know which is the right way. However, he doesn't think it's right for producers to think they have a total free hand in how to conduct their business. It would be fair for the political man to criticize the media whenever they feel they've been unfairly treated. In general, Nixon thinks most people in media do have a high sense of duty and try to be fair.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon why he thinks there are so few conservative journalists. Nixon attributes that to the educational backgrounds of journalists, which tend to trend more to the liberal side. Nixon calls men in the communications field as former U.S. President Woodrow Wilson did, "men of thought". Meanwhile, men in business are "men of action". Nixon believes President Wilson was a combination both. He believes men of thought, men who going into teaching, journalism, television, and radio, tend to be suspicious of the men of action.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven takes the opportunity to take a break in the interview and come back to talk about politics in the moment; camera pans to a metal sculpture of elephant.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether, barring any medical setbacks, there is any reason he would not declare his candidacy for the Presidency in the upcoming election. Nixon calls himself a political realist. He knows the exertions running for the Presidency can have on a person, so he doesn't take the decision lightly. His primary motivating factor whether to declare his run for the Presidency will be whether or not he considers himself to be the strongest contender for the Presidency. There are also possible unforeseen circumstances that may arise. After his run for Governor of California in 1962, he had done nothing to prepare for another run for political office since that time. Nixon didn't anticipate running for President in 1968.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon for self-reflection on his "assets and liabilities" as he approaches a decision on whether or not to declare his candidacy for the Presidency of the United States. Nixon doesn't think he can "psychoanalyze himself", but can recount what others have said. For his assets, Nixon touts his political experience as well as his experience in campaigning, nationally. However, his liability is also that he's been a known commodity in politics for a while, and not "a new face". Niven adds that he's also lost his last two elections. He notes that Nixon is putting pressure on himself to win the first two primaries. Nixon first choice would be to not have primaries at all because there is no point in being nominated if you don't win the general election. However, it has been stated that he must regain a "winner image", so the primaries will serve that purpose.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven states that former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon said that he wouldn't go door-to-door campaigning in New Hampshire, and asks if he thinks that's because such a campaign style is passé, out-of-date, or it's something that's not for him. First, Nixon clarifies that he never actually made such a statement since he hasn't even decided if he's running. He does place priority over the "grasp of the issues over the grasp of the hand". However, should he decide to run for President, he will campaign and expect to meet and greet thousands of people. Furthermore, in his recent experience traveling, Nixon finds that the people are less attractive to what may be called "the gimmicks of politics". Certainly, you do still have to meet the people, but a focus on the issues is most important. People want to know how a man will deal with the issues and problems of the country.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven recalls former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon saying that, after his loss in the 1960 Presidential Election by one hundred thousand votes, "everybody and his brother thinks he can put his finger on why and what went wrong". However, one criticism that was never made was that it was a dirty campaign run by Nixon. Niven says U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson made more harsh comments about U.S. President John F. Kennedy than Nixon ever did. However, the "Tricky Dick image persists", and Niven asks if this is still a problem, and, if so, how can Nixon combat it. Nixon acknowledges the image exists, but it doesn't bother him, nor does he expect that to be a problem. He can take it, and give it back when needed, and when the time comes, he'll respond. Niven references Earl Mazo's criticism of Nixon's "malignant innuendo" during past campaigns, and asks if there's any validity to it. Nixon stands on his record, campaigning on the issues, not personal attacks.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon if would campaign differently, as a "modus operandi", than he did in the 1960 President Election, assuming he won the nomination. Nixon says he would advise whoever is the nominee to conduct a different campaign than the one he conducted in 1960, with one exception: debates. There should be debates. It is an important forum to discuss issues and educate the American public. He hopes U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson reverses his position and agrees to debate. Nixon wouldn't mind if the format of the debates changed. As to campaigning in all fifty states, Nixon cautions against taking any state for granted, but more attention should be focused on the states that will make the difference, electorally.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven notes that whoever is the Republican nominee for President in 1968, one advantage he will have is that many of the large industrial states are governed by Republicans, as are some of the mayors. Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether it will be possible for Republicans to appeal to the needs of urban/city-dwellers. Currently, as the Republican record stands, Nixon doesn't think so, but he believes that record will change. He thinks the current administration's record with the cities is "abysmally poor". The country does not want to beef up programs that have failed. Nixon attacks the welfare programs that are perpetuating problems of the past. New approaches are needed, but the Republicans current approach as simply opposition to the administration's current programs isn't enough. Nixon believes there are good ideas coming from Congressional Republicans in both Houses that will use money effectively instead of wasting it.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven brings up former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon's year-old prediction that U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson would try and settle the Vietnam War by 1968. Niven asks Nixon whether he thinks that President Johnson will still try to do so. Nixon hopes so. Nixon believes the war has gone on much longer than necessary, and it would have been shortened if President Johnson had listened to Republican advice. However, he also believes that Republicans should support the war's duration for the rest of President Johnson's term, so as not to imply that if they win, North Vietnam will receive any better concessions from the Republicans. Nixon continues the criticize the manner in which the Vietnam War has been carried out to this point, but still hopes that it does come to a conclusion by 1968.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven notes the Vietnam War has split the Democratic Party, and asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon whether any kind of negotiated settlement will then split the Republican Party. Nixon says there should be no split in the party or in the country so long as the negotiated settlement is a seen as a reward for aggression. Nixon has no reason to believe U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson would agree to any kind settlement of that nature. Niven asks that if any negotiated settlement can be viewed as a reward for aggression, then isn't the only option left unconditional surrender. Nixon disagrees, stating the object in the war is not to defeat or conquer North Vietnam. Nixon opposes invasion, use of nuclear weapons, or any official declaration of war against North Vietnam.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon about the Vietcong, whether any settlement will reward them. Nixon calls the Vietcong a literal front for North Vietnam, and he believes that once North Vietnam leaves South Vietnam, the South Vietnamese government will be able to deal with the Vietcong. Nixon goes on to say that any settlement that allows the Vietcong into the government, as a unit, should be considered a reward for aggression. However, there would be no objection for individuals within the Vietcong to participate in government. Niven clarifies that Nixon is expecting the Vietcong to settle for very little. Nixon has the same attitude about the Vietnam War that he did for the early part of World War II; namely not settled and giving the aggressor any reward. Nixon believes the principle being fought over is bigger than just North and South Vietnam. Naked aggression cannot be rewarded, and Nixon quotes Winston Churchill to illustrate his point.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven credits former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon with his consistency on the question of the Vietnam War. However, Niven also knows there are Republicans who would reward the aggressors by allowing the North Vietnamese into a coalition government. There are Republicans who simply want out of Vietnam as soon as possible. Nixon acknowledges there are Republicans who hold views that differ from his and he respects those viewpoints. However, no Republican should endorse any settlement rewards aggression, though the definition of "reward" may differ. Nixon has no issue with a generous peace, and for the U.S. to help rebuild a shattered North Vietnam. The Vietcong should, individually, be allowed to participate in the South Vietnam society. Once South Vietnam can handle their own affairs, the U.S. should withdraw. However, there should be no negotiation that allows North Vietnam, the Vietcong, leaders of Peking and Moscow, to claim that they had won something through aggression.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon believes the Vietnam War goes beyond Vietnam because if it was just about Vietnam, then it would hold no interest to the U.S. The war is about the U.S. and peace in the Pacific. It is about this new type of aggression and whether exporting it for revolutionary purposes is to succeed. Nixon brings up the Korean War, which he supported, though disagreed with the way it was carried out. He believes the outcome of the Korean War achieved the outcome that since no major power has attempted to spread its influence by marching across a foreign border. Vietnam is attempting conquest by going under a border, and that cannot be allowed either.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Paul Niven asks former U.S. Vice-President Richard Nixon what rewards he seeks to find, still, in public life, assuming that he has not found them in private life. Nixon thinks that question veers into the psychoanalyst view into answers may not be appropriate for this setting. Nixon claims he has no illusions about his own faults and strengths, and no false humility. Nixon doesn't see himself as an indispensable man, but he does have strong convictions about the country, and its role in the world. He believes America is at a turning point and new leadership is needed, otherwise the cause of peace and leadership in the world may suffer a disaster from which there is no recovery. He knows many fine Democrats in government, but as a unit, and with U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson's lack of leadership, it is time for the Republican Party to provide that leadership. That's not to say the Republicans have earned that chance, but the campaign will determine that. Niven thanks Nixon.
A Conversation with Richard Nixon
Credits. Title. National Educational Television Network logo.