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Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 5, 1973
[00.12.33] Mr. LENZNER. It was Mr. Magruder who handed them to you in his office, is that correct? Mr. REISNER. Yes, he did. Mr. LENZNER. Did he hand what appeared to be stationery and that envelope together? Mr. REISNER. My memory memory of the envelope is that it was Slit open and that the stationery was either in it slit Open or on top of it and that they were together. Mr. LENZNER. What were his instructions? What were you supposed to do with these materials? Mr. REISNER. At that time, I was doing the activity that I described a few moments ago; I was preparing Mr. Mitchell's files for a meeting with Mr. Mitchell. Now, he was campaign director at this time and it was a daily activity. Mr. LENZNER. You were told--- MR. REISNER. I was handed the documents and I was asked to put them in Mr. Mitchell's files. The nature of that is that things that Mr. Magruder might have wished to take up with Mr. Mitchell were put in the file marked "Mr. Mitchell's file", and that is all. That does not indicate any more than that. Mr. LENZNER. Is it accurate also that you saw these on a third occasion in Mr. Magruder's drawer? Mr. REISNER. Yes, it is. Mr. LENZNER. On either of those occasions, were thaer also photographs with the stationery and the envelope? Mr. Reisner There appeared--well I am not certain whether the photographs were with the stationery, on the occasion I described, in which I was handed them and told- I do not know whether I was told or not. I mean, it was clear that, it was not for me to be looking at them, I do remember photographs or what appeared to be photographs with the stationery on that third occasion. Mr. LENZNER. Now, I want to direct your attention to June 17. On the evening of Julie 17, did you receive a call from Mr. Magruder at home? Mr. Reisner Yes, I did. I received a call at approximately 6 o'clock. I was asleep at, the time. Mr. LENZNER. Did he instruct you to go to the office? Mr. REISNER. Yes. The nature of his instruction was and the conversation, as I remember in was, Robert, we have some things that we would like you to get from the office and to remove from there. I think the nature of his description was that, we have some sensitive material that we want you to remove from the office. He then went on and said, and, Bob, there is a file there. It has--Mr. Magruder spoke on this occasion, and I think on other occasions, in a generalized way. I do not remember the complete sentences. It was, Bob, we have some things there. There is a file that has "Gemstone" in it, or, it has some papers called Gemstone in it, do you know what I mean? I said, well, I think so. He said, it is in a blue file. I said, I think I know where it is. He also said, and there are sensitive things in the office and we would like you to take them out, and just keep them over the, weekend. Mr. LENZNER. Did you go down to the office after you received that phone call? Mr. Reisner I did. Mr. LENZNER. And did you go to Mr. Magruder's office? Mr. Reisner I did. Mr. LENZNER. Did you see Mr. Odle there? Mr. Reisner Yes, I did. When I went into the office, Mr. Odle was there with a number of other people watching the evening news. Mr. LENZNER. Did you thereafter have a conversation telephonically with yourself, Mr. Odle, and Mr. Magruder? Mr. REISNER. Yes, I did. It was after the news was over, or certainly after the portion of the news in which the break-in which had occurred was discussed. The other people left the room and Mr. Odle suggested that we call Mr. Magruder. Mr. LENZNER. Would you Just briefly describe what Mr. Magruder said to you and Mr. Odle? Mr. REISNER. Yes. I think the purpose of the call and the first, discussion in the call was Mr. Odle wanted to describe what we had just seen on the news and what, the coverage was at that point. He went on from that and I think discussed in general security matters at the committee. It was my impression that he had previously talked to Mr. Magruder that, day about, security at the committee. He then went on and said, now, Jeb, I understand that--I was on the other phone at this point, which was not the one at Mr. Magruder's desk. He said, Jeb, now, there are these thing, that you have asked Bob to get Out, of your office. The reason he knew that was when I walked "to the office" I sat, down at, Mr. Magruder desk and removed several things from his desk. I removed a polling file and I removed what appeared to me to be one of the more important things in the file which was the analysis of the polls. I removed the operating plans which described the key States and our strategy following the phone call. And felt that the activity was perhaps a little bit foolish, to be sitting at his desk removing things. So I stopped. Subsequently, the phone call took place. At that point, Mr. Odle' brought up the fact that there were some things that I had already taken from the desk and he wished to know from Mr. Magruder what else there was that we should remove, He at that point was volunteering to be of assistance. I think there was some concern at that time for just the security of these documents. The senior campaign officials were in California and I think there was concern at that moment that they be in control of things. [00.18.20]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 5, 1973
[00.18.20] Mr. LENZNER. Mr. Reisner could you describe what Mr. Magruder instructions, were? Mr. REISNER. Mr. Magruder's instructions then became very specific concerning a blue file folder. I knew what at be was talking about at that point, I think it was at that point that two knew specifically "' what he was talking about, He indicated that that was one of the things that had to be removed. Mr. LENZNER. Did he say on the phone the word "Gemstone" on that occasion? Mr. Reisner It is not, my specific recollection that he did. If He could have. He definitely identified specifically a file folder. It, seems two he said it in the first phone conversation. He may or may not have in the second phone conversation, Mr. LENZNER. Did you later take the blue folder? Mr. Reisner Yes. At that point, I didn't know where the folder", was and I think I indicated that to him. But I said that I knew where it was, that two could find it. At, that point, Mr. Odle was volunteering to be of assistance and Mr. Magruder changed his instruction and indicated to me that Mr. Odle should take, home that and he then generalized it and said, and, other, you know, contender materials, or other strategy materials, something to that effect. Mr. Odle then--the conversation terminated shortly after that. Mr Odle left and I was left the task of finding it, which I did. Mr. LENZNER. You found it, and what did you do with it? Mr. Reisner I believe what I did with It was I combined it with some other materials, the other materials concerning contenders, put those materials in Mr. Odle's office, in his briefcase, and I locked his briefcase, Mr. Odle had at that point gone down to the third floor and I went down there to indicate to him that these things were in his briefcase Mr. LENZNER. One last question. You were subpenaed by this committee on or about March 30 of this year, is that correct? Mr. Reisner That, is correct. Mr. LENZNER. Prior to that time had you been interviewed either the U.S. attorney or the FBI? Mr. Reisner No, and I had not been interviewed by anyone--the National Committee in their civil suit, the, FBI, or U.S. attorney. Mr. LENZNER. For the record, can we, have this envelope marked for identification? In capital letters are indicated "Sensitive Material." In smaller letters "Handle as codeword material." In the lower left-- corner, the words "Ex Dis", and after that, "No Disem", d-i-s-e-m. Senator ERVIN. The, reporter will mark the envelope as an exhibit. Mr. LENZNER. The. Gemstone stationery, which has a blue border around it with letterhead "Gemstone" in capital letters and "date" and 'source", has already been entered as exhibit No. 16 at this morning's hearing. The other piece of stationery with the same print, except in the lower left-hand corner, it, says "Ex Dis", "No Disem", At the bottom, it says "Warning, this information is for intelligence, purposes only. Exploitation may compromise source and terminate flow of information." This piece of stationery was entered as exhibit No. 2, in the hearing of May 17, Mr. LENZNER. That is all the questions I have, Mr. Chairman, Senator ERVIN. Mr. Thompson. Mr. THOMPSON. 'Mr. Reisner, when did you first, become aware of the fact that, Mr. Liddy was engaged in intelligence-gathering activity? Mr. REISNER. I think probably there was a, general awareness on my part, that he was obtaining 'Information about the time that he came to the committee. At, the time of the 'introduction I described, when it was made known to me that Mr. Liddy had not wished to be described that way, I think I assumed an awareness at that point. Mr. THOMPSON. That was in December of 1971? Mr. REISNER. That I correct, yes, sir. Mr. THOMPSON. When he, was described as a, "supersleuth" or "superspy" or something like that? Mr. REISNER. it was a joking reference. Mr. THOMPSON. it turned out to be incorrect, too didn't, it? Mr. Reisner It turned out, to be incorrect. Mr. THOMPSON. Was there any discussion back and forth an-long the other people who were in that particular Meeting as, to exactly what Mr. Liddy was or exactly what- Mr. REISNER. I don't remember any I two discussion. It, came as a surprise to me that Mr. Liddy was concerned about, having been referred to in that, manner. Mr. THOMPSON. What did you think about 'Mr. Liddy personally? What was your evaluation Of him as to his ability or the' kind of man that he was considering the important position that he had? Mr. REISNER. I have discussed this with our staff. I think that my impression of Mr. Liddy was that he may have been a very capable, legal general counsel, but' that he also occasionally did some fairly bizarre things. He gave-- Mr. THOMPSON. We know, of one. For example? Mr. REISNER. He, gave a secretary in our, office, a large poster of him---[Laughter.] Mr. THOMPSON. I don't know if you should pursue that any further. Mr. REISNER.[continuing.] Probably 6 feet by 4 feet in size. Mr. THOMPSON. Larger than life size, wasn't it' Mr. REISNER. Larger than 'life size. Mr. THOMPSON. What kind of picture was it? Mr. REISNER. I believe it was a picture of himself with a bull horn and it may have had--he may have had a gun in his hand, conducting a raid of some kind. He Was in front of a police car. There was another poster, as a matter of fact, I think of him--I have the impression of him next to an airplane or something like that. He was occasionally bizarre. The other thing is that his relationship with my superior at that time, Mr. Magruder, was less than friendly on all occasions and I think that from that, I had an impression of him that he was certainly not an easy employee to have around. I think I indicated that to Mr. Magruder on one occasion and he agreed. [00.24.47]
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 5, 1973
[00.24.47] Mr. THOMPSON. Did Mr. Liddy seem to have any particular friends? You mentioned in other testimony that he had trouble with Mr. Magruder, personal differences. Mr. REISNER. I am not certain. I think the reason for the trouble with Mr. Magruder was that it may have been that he did not like to work for a younger man. I can remember on one occasion, after he had gone to work for the finance division, just seeing him in the hallway or something, and saying to him, how are you doing? And he went into a long explanation of his great respect for Mr. Stans and for Mr. Stans as a manager and that sort of thing. I think that he may very well have had a number of friends at the committee. I did not know Mr. Liddy very well at all. I saw him around. He seemed to be friendly with people at the committee. It-- Mr. THOMPSON Were you aware of any sums of cash that Mr. Liddy", was receiving for his activities? Mr. Reisner No, I am not. 1 was aware in one sense. I was aware that Mr. Porter had some cash in his possession that was contained in a safe in his office and that he, indicated to me that he had disbursements to Mr. Liddy. Mr. THOMPSON. What do you know about the cash that Porter kept in his office? First of all, again, who was Porter and what was his position? Mr. REISNER. Mr. Porter, who was the director of scheduling surrogate activity in the committee, had a safe in his office which he kept the petty cash for the committee. Prior to April 7, Porter came to me and asked me to assist him in just totaling up two disbursements and receipts related to that safe. Since I was-the purpose of my doing that, was to be able to report to my boss, Mr. Magruder, for whom Mr, Porter also worked, that there was not any pocketing of cash or anything like that, that the was an accounting, I mean that there was a system, And I did that. Mr. THOMPSON. Did you assist him in totaling the cash? Mr. Reisner I did and it was on that occasion that I learned Mr. Liddy was receiving some sums of cash from Mr. Porter. Mr. THOMPSON. Were there also receipts there for cash that been disbursed? Mr. REISNER. There weren't exactly receipts. There were slips of paper on which the initials of people to whom Mr. Porter, given cash were recorded and Mr. Liddy made a mark on those slips of paper. Mr. THOMPSON. What was the total amount, if you recall, of cash that had been disbursed plus the receipts? Mr. REISNER. The total amount, when you added up the amount Mr. Porter had received, seemed to be in the range of $40,000 to to $50,000 But, that was Mr. THOMPSON. Is that what, the committee referred to similar petty cash at, that time? Mr. REISNER. I referred to it as, petty cash until I had assisted Mr. Porter in the, activity. Mr. THOMPSON. And realized it was greater than you thought. Mr. Reisner I am sorry? Mr. THOMPSON. And you realized that, the money he had was more than you thought? Mr. REISNER. With this exception: It was not petty cash in the sense, that there were $7,000 or $8,000 on hand, which is certainly not petty cash. The $40,000 to $50,000 that I am referring to was sums that had accrued from the beginning of the time that there were receipts--July or June of 1971 until March. Mr. THOMPSON. How much cash was in the safe? Mr. REISNER. How much at that time? It seems to me it, was in the neighborhood of several thousand dollars--perhaps as much as five or six. Mr. THOMPSON. Did the receipts--do you recall any names of, or any amounts to individuals who were receiving money from Mr. Porter's safe? Mr. REISNER. Well, I can remember that there were, in addition to Mr. Liddy--now, Mr. Liddy was--it was 'Mr. Porter that indicated to me that Mr. Liddy was receiving money. There was an individual who was referred to January 17 a code name and that code name "Sedan Chair" and that that individual was- Mr. THOMPSON. Sedan Chair? Two words? Mr. REISNER. Yes. I believe it was actually "Sedan Chair 2." Mr. THOMPSON. Was there a Sedan Chair I? Mr. REISNER. I do not know, I do not know. Perhaps there Was. There ",as also an individual who worked for Mr. Porter named Roger Stone, who I believe received money. And there may have been other Individuals. But to my recollection, which is a little bit vague. on this, there, was not a regular disbursement, with those exceptions. Mr. THOMPSON. Who was Sedan Chair? Mr. REISNER. I do not know, I know that--well, I mean, I have sort, of a general circumstantial understanding of who I think Sedan Chair was, Mr. THOMPSON. Tell us about it. Mr. REISNER. I will come as close as I can, Mr. THOMPSON. Tell us about it. Mr. REISNER. Subsequent to that, after I learned that there was such an individual, I think I was more alert to the name and I did see a memo in April, I believe, or perhaps May, that purported to be a report from another campaign committee. I believe it was the Humphrey committee. I do not know for a fact who Sedan Chair was. It could have been someone who just simply had his disagreement with the Humphrey committee and wished to report on some on their activities. [00.30.25]